			    TRAVELLER Digest 229

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Black Boxes	by Jo Grant <Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
  2) Traveller/US gun legislation - WHY?	by "Bob Brown" <Robert.Brown@newcastle.ac.uk>
  3) Re: E-Mail Malfunctions	by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
  4) Re: TRAVELLER digest 228	by Michael Llaneza <mllaneza@mercury.sfsu.edu>
  5) 	by A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
  6) Transponders and Virus	by Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
  7) There's no place like Home	by Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
  8) Oops! Did I do that?	by Steve Charlton/Avalon Software Inc
  9) Re: TRAVELLER Digest 227	by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
 10) TNE Character Generation Program?	by "David A. Nelson" <34TYHPE@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
 11) Re: TRAVELLER digest 224	by stedee@Auto-trol.COM (Steve Deemer)
 12) Re: Traveller/US gun legislation - WHY?	by LONG2469@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 19 Mar 95 16:32:40 EDT
From: Jo Grant <Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
To: traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Black Boxes
Message-ID: <9503200924.AA27907@internet1.lotus.com>

>They're
>referred to as "black boxes"  because they are *sealed*,
 Actually they are refered to as "Black boxes" because
they were invented by Dr. Black. (Truth!) They are actually
bright orange, too :-).
    Jo the Irrelevant

------------------------------

Date:          Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:29:10 +0000
From: "Bob Brown" <Robert.Brown@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Traveller/US gun legislation - WHY?
Message-ID: <199503201428.OAA19210@cheviot.ncl.ac.uk>

POST TRAVELLER 795351635
Can someone explain to me the relevance of US gun laws with regards 
to Traveller. Bearing in mind that US gun legislation is but a drop 
in the ocean compared to the problems faced by the Imperium.
I subscribed to this listserver in the hope of reading interesting 
conversations about Traveller, and gaining new ideas for games; 
instead, I find long threads on subjects only vaguely related. 
Forgive this rant, those of you who post game-related stuff, but this 
"domestic"-policy ranting is beginning to get on my wick. It isn't 
even _my_ domestic policy!
Please, oh please, could we have a little more Traveller material, as 
opposed to discourses on US current affairs. We can read that in the 
papers.

On a more sensible note - in the spirit of a new beginning:

What is the likely fate of the Aslan Incursions within the Domain of 
Deneb, once communications across the Rift to the Heirate have been 
severed. How are the isolated Aslan likely to react? Also, are they likely 
even to have survived? I think that Norris would see this as a weakness, 
and push back into these territories during the crisis.

Any flames - please stick to personal email.

Cheers,

Bob.
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:04:04 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: E-Mail Malfunctions
Message-ID: <sf6d52fe.015@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>

> Already done. Having a problem with your apostrophe's?

   First...

   Regarding  mass driver energy usage, thanks Loren for bringing the
matter to Dave and Frank's attention.  I look forward to an update.

   Regarding E-Mail Malfunctions:

   Over the last couple of weeks, I#ve noticed it too, and can#t seem to
track down where the (^&%* problem is.  At first I thought it was just
single quotes and apostrophes, but I think double quotes are being
affected as well.  The part that really Ps me off about it is that it occurs
at random.  Sometimes all single quotes are affected,  sometimes only
some of them, sometimes all single quotes and some of the double
quotes.  All appears well when I send the message, but those # pop up
when the message is posted to the list.

   For the information of those along the Net, and I add quickly that this is
my own humble opinion, not my benefactors at corporate, the e-mail
package not to buy is:

Novell Groupwise

   Like all software that comes from Utah, it has some really neat
features, but too many quirky bugs to make it worth it.

   For those of you reading my posts and seeing all those ######s you
now know what's wrong.  Kindly do a global change of any #####s
you see in my messages to single quotes, if seeing #####s hurts your
aesthetic sensibilities.  I'm putting the computer geeks here on the
problem so hopefully it will be fixed before too long.

   This post was in no way paid for or endorsed by Mircosoft, Inc.,
though I would like some free software if they happen to be listening. 
Love you guys really.....

Harold


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 07:30:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Llaneza <mllaneza@mercury.sfsu.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 228
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950320072730.2667A-100000@orion>

This occured to me last night. It may find a place in your Traveller Games

The Imperial Pagans are a religious group common throughout Diaspora and 
Daibei sectors of the Imperium. The founders of the Imperial Pagans took 
elements of traditional 'planetary deity' religions and combined them 
into an intricate pantheon of mythic level figures representing the 
populated planets and important stellar objects. This pantheon was in 
many ways a metaphor for known galactic civilization. The individual 
characters reflected in an archetypical sense the character and 
personality of each planet. The tensions, alliances, and enmities between 
the characters mirrored in the stories told of each 'god' and the lessons 
which should be drawn from events.

The founders of the Imperial Pagans held an informal gathering of nature 
worshiping religions and shamanic traditions. These religions, with their 
emphasis on the earth that gave their civilizations life, often had 
trouble with interstellar civilization. The meeting was held to find a 
way to explain the vast diversity of worlds and life and to integrate all 
of the individual naturalist religions to combine into a single ethical 
community.

Since 652, when the number of worlds with active IP congregations reached 
16, the dispersed congregations of the IP have communicated with each 
other to discuss and debate the deeper meanings of current and historical 
figures and events. As the discussions mature over months and years 
(think of them as Internet collaborations with a 2 week minimum 
communications lag - if not months) the events are described in story 
format. Over time, the stories are edited and refined until with age and 
care, the event or person in question has become a mythological icon.

Certain characters, often Admirals or Emperors, or just as often common 
adventurers or ordinary folk, would begin to have cycles of stories 
attributed to them. Carefully recorded are the source materials from 
which the stories are based, but the myths are the important part.The 
myths are recorded and passed on in the form of a holographic projection 
of the teller speaking the words to the audience. Small groups listen to 
the recordings as part of their religious observance. Larger groups 
gather to listen to particularly significant myths, often in direct 
relation to current events. The average IP is well educated, if only 
through the religion, and all are active members of the discussion 
community. The IP's are consummate historians, anthropologists, and 
philosophers. They have little dogma, they keep open records of debate 
and source material.

In the New Era the IP are a significant civilizing influence. Their 
belief structure was able to accomodate the idea of a galactic armageddon 
and rebirth.On many worlds the IPs were lonely lights against the 
darkness. they preached regrowth of civilization and they remembered the 
old dreams.

Michael Carter Llaneza
Conceptual Design Services             The Worse it gets,
Pi Kappa Phi                           The more I get used to it.
"I am the NRA"			       Duty Now For The Future
Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force 1990-1951


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:31:22 +0000
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Message-ID: <199503201546.KAA15691@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

TRANSPONDERS AND HUMANITY

>>Andy Lilly writes regarding Transponders, etc.:
>> 
>>>There's been a lot of discussion about transponders, etc.
>> 
>>   Thank you for your post on the subject.  It is a beacon of light in
>>what is rapidly becoming a very murky thread.

Thanks

>Haven't we reached a consensus? The Deyo chip may hold water in a technical
>sense, but in terms of human nature the official history leaks in all
>directions. Right?

As Hans points out, it doesn't matter how secure the Deyo (or any other)
transponder system was, it would have leaked like a sieve - everyone would
have used it but it would have been abused with fakes and alterable
transponders.

Modern examples from just this week's news (on humans ignoring laws) are the
'revelations' that some UK farmers have still been feeding their cattle
illegal hormones and not bothering to get rid of BSE-infected cows. Well,
thankfully I avoid beef anyway now but when a whole generation of UK
citizens starts coming down the human BSE, perhaps little 'cock-ups' like
the Deyo/Virus/etc. situation won't seem so far from reality.

I can just see that lone scientist saying "But look, if we install the same
chip in every ship, what happens when it goes wrong."
Fellow scientist: "Don't be stupid Heinz, they'll never go wrong."
Heinz: "But look, I've just found this ancient article about a chip called
the Pentium which caused all hell to break loose over a minor floating point
error. Just think of the compensation claims if our Deyo has a fault..."

SECRET FREQUENCIES, ET AL.
If you can't get the stuff the hard way (i.e. by careful examination of the
EM spectrum to find the frequencies and their coding method) why not do it
the easy way, i.e. find one corrupt official of appropriate level and pay
him 2MCr (in a Traveller plot this man could be called "Aldritch Aimes", for
example. In fact, for 2MCr he'd probably give you the plans for the whole
navy fleet as well, prove the Imperials knew the Hivers were dodgy well
before the Virus, and uncover the secret plans for mass annhilation of the
K'kree by a fleet sponsored by McDonalds).

CYNTHIA
Can you shorten your line lengths? I seem to get all your messages wrapping
oddly - they're about 82 characters rather than 79-80.

Andy


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:15:18 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Transponders and Virus
Message-ID: <199503201615.RAA07017@embla.diku.dk>

Michael Richter writes:
>[me]:
>>Haven't we reached a consensus? The Deyo chip may hold water in a technical
>>sense, but in terms of human nature the official history leaks in all
>>directions. Right?
> 
>Forgive a late-comer to the thread, but in what way do the Deyo chip and Virus
>hold water in any technical sense?  It is this specific feature of the new
>Traveller canon which prevents me from using the Traveller universe as my
>campaign setting.

The discussion was about the transponders, not the virus. Take a look at
the description of the chips. They really do seem impossible to _alter_
once they've been created.

>I'm only interested in what sorts of PSG (pseudo-scientific gobbledigook) is

>used to make Virus palatable. The canonical explanation simply doesn't make 
>any sense at any level. 

Did you ever see "Raiders of the Lost Ark"? Were you one of those people who
said: "Hey, no way the Ark of the Covenant could work like that!"? Or did
you (like me) say: "OK, the film postulates that the Ark of the Covenant
works like it does in the Bible. Let's see what kind of story that makes."

A game universe does not have to be an accurate model of the Real World to
be fun (often contrariwise). What it does need is to be consistent, so that
the players can PLAN their moves rather than just flail around randomly.
One good way to ensure consistency is to base most of your physical laws
on those of the Real World (because they are nothing if not consistent).
They are also known to your players beforehand, so you don't need to spend
endless hours explaining them. But if you explain the difference to them,
there's nothing wrong with deviating from the Real World in a carefully
controlled way (Jump Drives, Psionics, Contragravity, etc.). Only, if you
do so, make sure the new rules are _consistent_. So there's nothing wrong
with a Magic Plot Device like the virus per se. If Real Life Physics can't
take a joke then fuck RLP. What I object to is when a story isn't consistent.
(The Ark of the Covenant is OK by me, but I object strongly to those nazis 
running around _armed and uniformed_ in a British Protectorate!).

>(How the hell does a PROGRAM, a set of states and state transitions, on one 
>computer change the underlying HARDWARE of another, often completely 
>unrelated, computer?)

Well, you see, there was this living silicon chip with psionic abilities.
Every version of Virus that changes the hardware has one of those chips
behind it. Those Virus versions that are pure program only generate pure
program descendants.

What do you mean that's impossible? How much do you know about Real Life
Psionics?

No, what I dislike about the transponders is that GDW went to a lot of
trouble (and inconsistency) to explain why the Virus could spread through
all these ships. But that only gets Virus to a lot of planets. After that
they have to state that, per definition, this Virus is so sophisticated
that it can work its way into ANY system ("It's magic!"). OK, that's their
priviledge. But if they had to make it magic anyway, why waste strength
on such a bogus story as the transponders?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:21:40 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: There's no place like Home
Message-ID: <199503201621.RAA07499@embla.diku.dk>

Rob Prior writes: 
>Cynthis writes:

No, I wrote it.

>>Look, if you're going to insist that most people would consider the tales
>>of their parents more of a home than the place where they were born, grew
>>up, own land, and are making a decent living, just say so and I'll agree 
>>to disagree with you.
> 
>I don't know about _most_, but a lot of folks around here seem to be holding
>on quite tightly to places their _grandparents_ came from.  I suspect they'd
>never return (else why haven't they done so), but they still buy the savings
>bonds, travel "back" every year, maintain the language and customs, send
>money to the family "back home", etc.

That's holding onto their cultural roots. I say nothing against that. All I
said was that once settled on a rich, pleasant T-Prime world like Home, the
patriotism of the settlers would be directed at the place they were born, 
grew up, and are making a good living. 



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now. Facts
are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: 20 Mar 95 10:36:00 MS
From: Steve Charlton/Avalon Software Inc
To: xboat <xboat@MPGN.COM>, traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Oops! Did I do that?
Message-ID: <9503201737.AA22500@khan.avalon.COM>

Well, I go and post a message that inadvertently sets off a really
strong 2nd Amendment discussion, and what happens?  My damned 
mail server goes down for a week.  Personally, I am a very strong
2nd Amendment supporter, but not all (or even most) of the 
worlds in my Traveller game reflect this.  

I do make a separation between planetary cultures and Imperial
culture.  I see Imperial culture as the overall set of values and
attitudes held by the Imperial citizens who spend most of their
lives travelling from world to world.  This group would tend to 
include most (but not all) PCs, as well as a fairly large portion of
the Imperial nobility and the members of the Imperial services 
(IISS, IN, IMC, IA).  I also tend to see another distinct cultural
group, the Corporate culture.  This group is similar to the Imperial
culture, but is based on loyalty to a megacorporate entity.

The Imperial culture I tend to see as being fairly individualistic, and
while I don't think it is violence-prone, I feel it does not shrink
away from violence, and sees violence as another legitimate
(though costly) way of solving problems. In terms of views about
weapons and armor, these items are tools used to stay alive and
to further the goals of the individual or group in question.  For
this reason, weapons are fairly available in the extrality zone
of most starports (I generally set starports at Law Level 2, but
when rolling for possible harrasment by Security I pretend the
Law Level is about a 6; the starport managers frown on
property damage).

The Corporate culture would have a similar outlook, but this outlook 
would be colored by a loyalty to the megacorp.  This loyalty might
be based on tradition or on greed, but it would still be loyalty.  In
this case, violence would also been seen as a legitimate means
of problem solving, but this judgement would be strongly
tempered by the possible economic or reputation effects on the
megacorp and on the person or group in question.

The Planetary culture would be a wildcard.  Each world has its
own unique culture, or at least a subset of an overall ethnic
culture like Solomani or Vilani or what have you.  Every kind
of viewpoint you can image (and plenty you cannot imagine)
would show up in some Planetary culture.

Commodore Lilly sez
>Nice idea. If you limit the ammunition and, better still in Traveller, have
>a unique identifier for every gun and its rounds (radioactive trace elements
>in the bullet metal, etc.) then everyone can be defended while still being
>able to catch those people who abuse the system. Anyone else got any clever
>ideas for expanding on this? Except, "every adult male gets his own
>battledress" is still out the window, as far as MY game's concerned ;-)

Now there's a neat idea for handling one world's law level.  In fact, you get
a 
couple of possible offshoots:
1 - As above; the government does not abuse this, and nearly all gun owners 
play along as well.  The main play effect here might be that the PCs, upon
visiting the planet, have a small adventure either getting local weapons
permits, or inadvertently violate local weapons laws.
2 - As above, but the local government takes a more oppressive bent and
begins
cutting back ammo quotas and keeping "hit lists" of known ammo buyers.  Lots 
more adventure possibilities here:  The PCs could be hired by pro-weapon
resistance forces as mercenaries, or if technically skilled could be hired as

illegal ammo makers.  Or they could become smugglers, running ammo to
the resistance.  Or the PCs might get hired as infiltrators or trouble
shooters by the local government.

Well, there's my .02Cr.  For those of you offended or annoyed at the
recent rash of gun rights discussions, I offer a minor apology, but in
general I think things like this deserve discussion.  As I have shown
above, there is a Traveller relevance to this topic, since it is
intimately involved with one of the eight Universal Planetary Profile
numbers.  I realize the others don't get discussed as much, but there
is little argument over world sizes or atmospheric types.  The only
other controversial one would be government, which also will
generate the occasional massive arguments (I hope we all remeber
the great Feudal Technocracy debate).

And for those of you not in the U.S.A., who feel disconnected from the
main points of the gun rights material:  Keep giving your input.  I am
keeping notes based on the info from our foreign friends, and your
views or the views of your governments will absolutely show up in 
some planetary culture somewhere in my universe.  I thank you all
for your ideas.

Steve Charlton
scharlto@avalon.com

None of the above reflects the views
of my gracious employers.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:00:37 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER Digest 227
Message-ID: <sf6db47d.009@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>

Hans Rancke  speaks yet again of transponders:

>Harold, when I argue that what GDW says here dosen't make sense
then I don't  really see the
>relevance of a counter argument that it would make sense if they said
something different.

   Basically I am putting in my two credits worth.  My views are more in
line with what GDW has to say on the subject, and I have a basic
understanding of the logic behind GDW#s thinking.  If you were posting in
response to me because you thought you had an opportunity to tear
down someone who somehow bought off 100 percent on every thing
GDW has to say on the subject, I#m sorry to disappoint you.  Like I said
previously, I follow the orthodoxy as much as possible.  When writing for
GDW it is necessary to follow the orthodoxy without question (or I
should say It#s a good idea to do so--the storyline gets mucked up pretty
quickly if you don#t), otherwise what you write is a variant.

>Well, when I said that the chips as described did seem to be
tamperproof I failed to consider the
>local magic system, mostly because the capabilities of psionic adepts
being so ill-defined it is
>possible to say that per def no psionics can affect them (actually, a
built-in psionic shield will do
>the trick). Without such a shield a cybernectic telepath could probably
make love to a chip and
>persuade it to lie ;-)

   I wouldn#t recommend it.  I understand they are very demanding lovers
(little known fact about Deyos).  Psionic manipulation would theoretically
be possible, but I was thinking in terms of simple duplication.  At TL 15,
cloning Deyos would be a rather easy.  Manipulating the clones into
useful transponder chips would take a bit longer, but it could be done. 
As to the Hivers, I#m sure that they had the Deyo jumping through hoops
and being well behaved little silicon lifeforms.  The Hiver who pulled off
the trick?  Why M.Gates of course....

>Read what I'm saying, Harold. The chips are not a standard that the
other governments can 
>design their own chips to, they are small electronic etc...

   At TL 15 genetic manipulation is quite common.  Megacorporations
probably go around designing new living, breathing pets the way that toy
makers now make a new teddy bear.  Why should Deyo chips be more
unique than human beings (who are also the subject of genetic
manipulation)? The specs on how to make your own Deyo should be no
more complicated than  that--and like I said, if the Imperium wasn#t in the
mood to dispense the information, it wouldn#t  take long to figure it out.

On to the Solomani, or what Mel Brooks had in mind when he wrote the
#Jews In Space# bit for "History for the World, Part I"....

>>Their lack of integration was due to more than prejudice.  In areas
>>where they were allowed to settle and become part of the community,
>>they still maintained a degree of seperateness.  
>
>But what degree? Greater than the English catholics? Examples,
please.

   OK, the Jews of New York City would be one example.  There they still
occupy whole neighborhoods.  Everyone from the guy that owns the
koshier deli to the kid that sweeps the deli owner#s floors is Jewish.
Though they have absorbed a degree of American culture, they still
maintain many of the traditions they brought with them a century ago. 
Typically they might work outside the community, and even have
non-Jewish friends, but they always identify with their neighborhood
and its people more than they do the outsiders (this last aspect is
shared by other ethnic groups in NYC as well).  Many of them have
friends or family in Israel, or have visited there at least once in their
lives.
They also send money in Israel for projects--everything from planting
trees (popular 20 years ago), to providing assistance to Russian Jews
who have recently migrated there.

>>Many Jewish communities went so far as to forbid their children to
marry outside their faith.
>
>So does most other faiths.

   But to the degree that this is important at least here in the U.S. has
achieved almost a degree of legend.  Or so Jewish comedians would
have you believe.  :)  I think anyone over the age of 30 has heard about
the stereotypical Jewish mother who dotes over her son, and advises
him to #settle down and marry a nice Jewish girl.#  Every indication I#ve
had from my Jewish friends is that the reputation of the Jewish mother is
well earned.

>Yes, and those were mostly the ones who was having a hard time
where they were. That's my
>whole point. You don't maintain that kind of burning desire if you're
reasonably well off where you
>are. Examples: The Jews in Scandinavia and Germany around 1910.

   There were Zionists (those who wanted to see Israel re-established)
among the Jews of Germany and Scandanavia, just as there were in
other parts of the world.  A large number of Jews left the U.S. after the
establishment of Israel so that they could settle there (some Jewish-
American pensioners retire to Israel to this day).  Certainly the Jews in
the U.S. could be counted as reasonably well off.

>Look, if you're going to insist that most people would consider the tales
of their parents more of a
>home than the place where they were born, grew up, own land, and
are making a decent living, just
>say so and I'll agree  to disagree with you.

   I think you are badly underestimating the strength and influence of the
Solomani Cause in Confederation politics.  True, it may have meant
something different depending on what member-state you were from,
but the common theme of the recovery of Terra was always there. 
Remember what I said in previous posts.  Home was selected as the
capital because it was so Earth-like.  Home was made as much as
possible to look like Earth.  If as you are growing up you were constantly
bombarded by images and rhetoric about how this place you are living
is not where you belong, then there#s a good chance you#ll not want to
stay if you have an opportunity to go back to your true #home#.

>Again, if you really think that there is not a profound difference
between the wiews of 1st and 2nd
>generation exiles and those of 3rd and 4th  generation exiles, then
that's your priviledge. All I can
>say is: You are wrong, Sir.

   Of course there are profound differences.  The mere fact that there
are descendents of Chinese refugees who would think about declaring
Taiwan independent and think of Taiwan as home not China, tells you
that.  You seem to think that the process of total amalgamation takes 3 or
4 generations, and it#s simply not true.  There is no fixed formula for it
because of all the variables involved.  Otherwise there would be no
Palestinian refugee problem in the Middle East, no Jewish immigration to
Israel after WW II, no Hungarian ethnic types in Romania, and my wife (a
4th generation Italian-American) certainly wouldn#t use #you Americans#
when she sees my family acting in a way that differs from hers.

>Try coming up with one example of a people who, _having established 
themselves comfortably in
>exile_, really were anxious to return to their ancestral lands. Note the
qualification, because that's
>the lynchpin of my argument. The people, especially the rulers, of Home
are IMO comfortably
>established on Home. They might talk a good return to Terra, but when it
came to action...

   The Jews after their captivity in Babylon.

   I#m not saying that there won#t be a significant percentage of the
population that consider consider themselves to be Homeians and not
Terrans, but the overwhelming majority would refer to themselves as
Terrans first.  We aren#t told the population of Home prior to the First
Solomani Rim War, nor are we told how many Terrans imigrated from
Terra to Home during and after the war.  These are important facts in our
conversation that we can only speculate about.

And again with the transponder thing...
  
>Haven't we reached a consensus? The Deyo chip may hold water in a
technical sense, but in
>terms of human nature the official history leaks in all directions. Right?

   It leaks here and there, to be sure.  Whether you throw the baby out
with the bath water, or try to make sense of the official storyline with
some creative reinterpretation to patch the holes seems to be the
question.


Cynthia seemingly returning to us from the dead writes:

>If I'm a hostile government, I then have lots of technicians and engineers
with spectrum analyzers
>and computers to listen for signals across the suspect bands, and
analyze them.  If you use those
>IFF interrogators, I'll eventually find their frequencies.

   I don#t recall Iraq or the U.S.S.R. spending a lot of money on such a
project.  Again, scrambling, countermeasures (including false
transponder signals broadcast when you know the bad guys are
listening), and other methods mentioned previously would be used to
insure that nobody could get a real good lock.

>      Yes, you can have "Secret" frequencies, as in 'they have a red
stamp on the paper saying "Top
>Secret"' --but you can't have "secret" frequencies as in "no one  will
ever find out what they are".

   Cynthia! For a brief millisecond it sounded like you were coming
around...Everyone tries to make sure that their Secrets stay secret, but
they don#t always succeed.

>I'm actually surprised that they didn't have them before that... the
Germans  pulled the same kind
>of trickery in WWII once in a while.  

   In the Pacific Theater, Native-Americans (Navaho, I think) were
employed as radio operators. The Japanese were completely baffled by
them, since they couldn#t figure out the strange #code# the Americans
were using!

>The Army Air Corps boys certainly had enough experience with that...
German fighter pilots in
>captured Allied fighters with Allied markings still on them used to
infiltrate bomber formations and
>attack the bombers.

   Sounds likes they were employing the same stuff they used during the
Battle of the Bulge, having guys in MP outfits directing traffic the wrong
way, dressing Panther tanks up to look like American M-10s, etc.

>OTOH, the Vietnam War seems to have been when McNamara's young
hotshots decided to toss
>out  everything we learned about running a military over the last 2000
years as  "old-fashioned" and
>start over from scratch...

   Modern wars are not suppose to be fought using the old rules,
remember.  :)


Erich Schneider writes:

>Virus-controlled cyborg K'kree. A "God" Virus which infects a K'kree 
library database.
>Let's see the Hivers try to manipulate _that_!

   Any manipulation of such a beast would probably be carried out with a
fusion gun.


Harold


------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 20 Mar 95 17:56:46 EST
From: "David A. Nelson" <34TYHPE@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TNE Character Generation Program?
Message-ID:   <950320.175848.EST.34TYHPE@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>

Is anyone out there designing, considering designing, or possibly maybe
designing a character generation program for TNE? Also does anyone have a
good ship design spreadsheet that will work with Microsoft Works? Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 16:31:07 MST
From: stedee@Auto-trol.COM (Steve Deemer)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 224
Message-ID: <9503202331.AA05495@stedee.YP.attc>


Mark "I wish I weren't adicted to this stupid game" Clark writes:

>Anyway, enough of this.  The only reason I was so disappointed was because 
>the Dark Conspiracy trilogy was so good (especially the first volume - 
>read it even if you have no interest in the game system, it's that good), 
>and I thought GDW would do as well this time.  Maybe Andy is right - 
>maybe GDW just couldn't afford a better writer.

Okay, I'm hooked. What is the title/author/publisher of the Dark Conspiracy
trilogy? Would it be available through a friendly neighborhood bookstore?
When was it issued? Is "Death of Wisdom" available only through GDW?

Steve "Nothing but questions" Deemer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:47:39 -0500 (EST)
From: LONG2469@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Traveller/US gun legislation - WHY?
Message-ID: <01HOD8S19G8I9JEM36@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>

Date sent:  20-MAR-1995 17:32:50 


>Can someone explain to me the relevance of US gun laws with regards 
>to Traveller. Bearing in mind that US gun legislation is but a drop 
>in the ocean compared to the problems faced by the Imperium.

Well Bob:
	The U.S. gun legislature can be looked upon as being the rough 
equivalent of a high law-level world, and while yes this is but a small 
drop in the imperial bucket, not all planets follow imperial rulings.  Some 
of these planets even have governments similar to U.S., or U.K. or Canadian
, Or Russian, Or what-ever.  By better understanding the cause and effects 
of thses different governments you can better represent how the player 
characters would intereact when having to deal with governments of various 
types.  I.E. we have been discussing the ownership of BattleDress, well if 
you extrapolate U.S. Gun-law a atep further you could come up with a law 
system that outlaws or allows for the ownership of such items.  Further you 
could take the idea of gun-outlawing to it's extremes and see what would 
happen if you allowed a single group of individuals to dictate the actions 
of all others in a planetary government.  

	Befor anyone jumps on a discussion step back and think it through, 
could you use this information to gleam a better understanding of how 
governments or other things work??


>I subscribed to this listserver in the hope of reading interesting 
>conversations about Traveller, and gaining new ideas for games; 


everything discussed can be used to enliven a game, if it gives you a sense 
of how a certain situation might go (I.E. two people in a bar talking about 
the new legislation against PSIonic Shields.)  Just take a detached look at 
it.  However if the discussion does not in some way refer to the game after 
a limited amount of time, it should be moved off to the more appropriate 
lists.



>On a more sensible note - in the spirit of a new beginning:
>
>What is the likely fate of the Aslan Incursions within the Domain of 
>Deneb, once communications across the Rift to the Heirate have been 
>severed. How are the isolated Aslan likely to react? Also, are they likely 
>even to have survived? I think that Norris would see this as a weakness, 
>and push back into these territories during the crisis.
>


	I think perhaps the Female Aslans that were around would have taken 
control in the abscence of communications, and would have refounded a 
splinter society.  They perhaps would have bound together to survive, and 
eventually attempt to make contact with the home-worlds.

I hope this has been a usefull communictions, and that there does not 
spring forth a flame war, that would make VIRUS pale by comparison.   ;)

Stay Frosty, 

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jamison J. Long (AKA Neuromancer, Flag Admiral, Jamie)  [{Founder T.E.R.R.A}]
LONG2469@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU or LONG2469@SNYPLAVA.bitnet
 
Alea Iacta est.  (The Die is Cast.)  -Iulius Caesar, upon crossing the
Rubicon.
   {Also the Motto of T.E.R.R.A. [The Embry-Riddle Roleplaying Assoc.]}

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 229
***************************
